2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

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08 Stallions or 17 Stallions. Which was better team?

Poll ended at Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:25 pm

2008 South Pointe Stallions
5
45%
2017 South Pointe Stallions
5
45%
Can't decide!
1
9%
 
Total votes : 11

2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

Postby 5thqtr » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:25 pm

Stallions Fans...................who would win?

I mean, it is yet to be determined how many ( if any) from this years squad go on to play in the NFL. But, 14 legit FBS recruited kids.( not all will go for various reasons of course; but that # certainly hit FBS radars). Both had All-Americans @ QB! 1 had the #1 pick in the NFL draft.
Don't forget about Roseboro, Holmes, White, the TE who was 6-6 Heitkamp, Darby, Wherry, Clowney, Dixon. Had a kicker who ended up at South Carolina Landon Ard!

This season two All-Americans. An offense that broke that seasons scoring mark!

Both went undefeated! Both pretty much dominated!

** I kind of am still leaning on the 2008 squad; because of that defense. Just stank, rotten, funky, ugly, nasty GOOD! This years defense was better specifically against the pass; when teams could actually get a pass off. Eli Adams is going to be great for Virginia Tech. But, 2008 had pass rushers on both sides who went on to FBS. The middle was no man's land.
That's just my opinion defensively! I kind of give the 2017 an advantage offensively! How is it you say, " not obvious"! Well, 08 team scored a bunch of points. But, the defense and especially special teams scored a ton of points. A lot more than the defense this year scored. This years offense faced several 3rd and forevers and picked it up almost seemingly effortlessly! SG5 was not that type of QB to be able to pick those up.

ST - push! Landon did not have as many TB as Potter; but he was great at it too!
Coaching - a razor thin edge to 17 b/c of HC and specifically the OC.

But, this is why I present the question. I don't care who you vote for: BTW, I followed both as much/often as I could throughout those seasons and every Stallions squad since the school opened. South Pointe has only ever lost 29 games in it's history...............this is just splitting hairs because I honestly can't say w/any level of confidence which team I really think was better! Wondering if anybody else out there was having same problem.


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Re: 2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

Postby polysci » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:07 am

I give the edge because of DK. In my opinion he is much better than Gilmore and I saw a lot of both of them in high school.
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Re: 2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

Postby Mania » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:29 pm

Don't forget Hollimon. I mention him because Greg Taylor had an offensive package for him at qb that the Stallions never had to use the whole season. 2008 had a better kickoff/punt return game as well. Hollimon had 5 kick/punt return td's and Burris had 4 that year. 2008 had a heck of an offensive line too. Darby was not at SP in 08. Ratliff was the back up tailback. Defense definitely goes to 08 as does special teams with the better return game and Ard was right there with Potter. Holmes was the best receiver from the two years, but Kendrick had more to throw to and better passing skills. 08 had more of a Bobby Carrol power run game and never let teams get closer than 21 points. At that time that was the best in state history and still probably is. This year's team had less power running and more quick striking offense. They blew through the playoffs dominating everyone in 4a. 08 they were in a slightly higher division in comparison to this year. Head-to-Head I think 08 wins. That defense was nasty and they beat a Worley, Neely, and Patterson NW twice by 21. It would be a great game and Kendrick is a step quicker than Gilmore and spread the ball around better.
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Re: 2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

Postby WRHIRadio » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:57 pm

[quote=“Mania”]Don’t forget Hollimon. I mention him because Greg Taylor had an offensive package for him at qb that the Stallions never had to use the whole season. 2008 had a better kickoff/punt return game as well. Hollimon had 5 kick/punt return td’s and Burris had 4 that year. 2008 had a heck of an offensive line too. Darby was not at SP in 08. Ratliff was the back up tailback. Defense definitely goes to 08 as does special teams with the better return game and Ard was right there with Potter. Holmes was the best receiver from the two years, but Kendrick had more to throw to and better passing skills. 08 had more of a Bobby Carrol power run game and never let teams get closer than 21 points. At that time that was the best in state history and still probably is. This year’s team had less power running and more quick striking offense. They blew through the playoffs dominating everyone in 4a. 08 they were in a slightly higher division in comparison to this year. Head-to-Head I think 08 wins. That defense was nasty and they beat a Worley, Neely, and Patterson NW twice by 21. It would be a great game and Kendrick is a step quicker than Gilmore and spread the ball around better.[/quote]

You make some very good points. A couple of observations. I think, without a doubt, the 2017 team played a tougher schedule than the 2008 team, so we have to take that into consideration. In regards to Northwestern, while Worley, Neely, and Patterson were great that year, I think most people will agree the 2010 Northwestern team was much better than the 2008 version. Northwestern was South Pointe's toughest competition in 2008 and I believe at least 2 if not 3 teams on South Pointe's schedule this year would have beaten that 2008 NW squad.
When you mention Special Teams, I do not believe Ard and Potter are equals. Even during Ard's senior year, he never was at the level that Potter was. Secondly, the 2008 campaign, Ard was a sophomore, so that gives Potter an even bigger advantage. Comparing the two main punt returners: Holloman averaged 16.5 yards per return, while Gilmore averaged 12.1, so Holloman did have a slight advantage there. In terms of punting, Ard averaged 31 yards per punt, Potter averaged 37, advantage Potter. In kickoffs, Potter hit 117 of 126 possible kickoffs for touchbacks (5 of the ones he didn't hit as TB were because of 15 yard penalties, he was kicking from the 25). Ard meanwhile, only had touchbacks on roughly half his kicks.
Overall Slight edge to 2017 on Special Teams.

On Offense, the 2008 had Gilmore leading the way rushing with 1262 yds and 23 tds. Wherry was 2nd with just over 785 and 13Tds, while Darby was 3rd with 643 and 11 scores. Receiving: Holmes had 47 for 890 and 6 TDs, Jackson was 2nd with 28 for 318 and 2 TDs. Passing: Gilmore threw for 1,771 yds, 14 TDs and 5 Ints
2017: Rushing: Irvin 1275 yds, 16 TDS, Kendrick 1194, 20 tds, Whitlock 777 11 tds. Receiving: Robinson 53-909-8tds, Ross 39-379-3tds, Gilmore 37-685, 11tds, Good 30-519, 10tds. Passing: Kendrick 2,683 yds, 30 tds, 6 int
Overall: Big edge for 2017 team on offense

Defensively: 2008 gave up only 98 points, while the 2017 squad gave up 161. While many of these points, in both cases, came against back-ups, it is still clear that the 2008 team had a better defense.

Overall: 2008 scored 672 and gave up 98. 2017 scored 713 and gave up 161. Nearly identical margins. The 2008 had 3 games in which teams were within 21 (Northwestern twice and Rock Hill). In 2017, there was two games, 33-27 @ Buford and 41-27 vs. York.

So all in all, its easy to make a case for both teams. Having seen both play, up close and personal and going POSITION by POSITION, my belief is the 2017 team has a slight edge over that 2008 team.

QB: 2017
RB: 2017
WR: 2017
OL: 2017
DL: 2008
LB: 2008
DB: 2008
Kicking: 2017
Returns: 2008
Coaching: 2017

Again, this is my opinion.
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Re: 2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

Postby 5thqtr » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:51 pm

[quote=“WRHIRadio”][quote=“Mania”]Don’t forget Hollimon. I mention him because Greg Taylor had an offensive package for him at qb that the Stallions never had to use the whole season. 2008 had a better kickoff/punt return game as well. Hollimon had 5 kick/punt return td’s and Burris had 4 that year. 2008 had a heck of an offensive line too. Darby was not at SP in 08. Ratliff was the back up tailback. Defense definitely goes to 08 as does special teams with the better return game and Ard was right there with Potter. Holmes was the best receiver from the two years, but Kendrick had more to throw to and better passing skills. 08 had more of a Bobby Carrol power run game and never let teams get closer than 21 points. At that time that was the best in state history and still probably is. This year’s team had less power running and more quick striking offense. They blew through the playoffs dominating everyone in 4a. 08 they were in a slightly higher division in comparison to this year. Head-to-Head I think 08 wins. That defense was nasty and they beat a Worley, Neely, and Patterson NW twice by 21. It would be a great game and Kendrick is a step quicker than Gilmore and spread the ball around better.[/quote]

You make some very good points. A couple of observations. I think, without a doubt, the 2017 team played a tougher schedule than the 2008 team, so we have to take that into consideration. In regards to Northwestern, while Worley, Neely, and Patterson were great that year, I think most people will agree the 2010 Northwestern team was much better than the 2008 version. Northwestern was South Pointe’s toughest competition in 2008 and I believe at least 2 if not 3 teams on South Pointe’s schedule this year would have beaten that 2008 NW squad.
When you mention Special Teams, I do not believe Ard and Potter are equals. Even during Ard’s senior year, he never was at the level that Potter was. Secondly, the 2008 campaign, Ard was a sophomore, so that gives Potter an even bigger advantage. Comparing the two main punt returners: Holloman averaged 16.5 yards per return, while Gilmore averaged 12.1, so Holloman did have a slight advantage there. In terms of punting, Ard averaged 31 yards per punt, Potter averaged 37, advantage Potter. In kickoffs, Potter hit 117 of 126 possible kickoffs for touchbacks (5 of the ones he didn’t hit as TB were because of 15 yard penalties, he was kicking from the 25). Ard meanwhile, only had touchbacks on roughly half his kicks.
Overall Slight edge to 2017 on Special Teams.

On Offense, the 2008 had Gilmore leading the way rushing with 1262 yds and 23 tds. Wherry was 2nd with just over 785 and 13Tds, while Darby was 3rd with 643 and 11 scores. Receiving: Holmes had 47 for 890 and 6 TDs, Jackson was 2nd with 28 for 318 and 2 TDs. Passing: Gilmore threw for 1,771 yds, 14 TDs and 5 Ints
2017: Rushing: Irvin 1275 yds, 16 TDS, Kendrick 1194, 20 tds, Whitlock 777 11 tds. Receiving: Robinson 53-909-8tds, Ross 39-379-3tds, Gilmore 37-685, 11tds, Good 30-519, 10tds. Passing: Kendrick 2,683 yds, 30 tds, 6 int
Overall: Big edge for 2017 team on offense

Defensively: 2008 gave up only 98 points, while the 2017 squad gave up 161. While many of these points, in both cases, came against back-ups, it is still clear that the 2008 team had a better defense.

Overall: 2008 scored 672 and gave up 98. 2017 scored 713 and gave up 161. Nearly identical margins. The 2008 had 3 games in which teams were within 21 (Northwestern twice and Rock Hill). In 2017, there was two games, 33-27 @ Buford and 41-27 vs. York.

So all in all, its easy to make a case for both teams. Having seen both play, up close and personal and going POSITION by POSITION, my belief is the 2017 team has a slight edge over that 2008 team.

QB: 2017
RB: 2017
WR: 2017
OL: 2017
DL: 2008
LB: 2008
DB: 2008
Kicking: 2017
Returns: 2008
Coaching: 2017

Again, this is my opinion.[/quote]

I agree 100%, now that you broke it down position by position. If I could do over I would choose 2017. I disagree about NW however, I don't think anybody on this years schedule could have dealt with that NW team! They were still playing old school NW defense and Richardson had just got on a roll as a play caller!
Outside of that! I agree 100%.
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Re: 2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

Postby Mania » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:59 am

You have the ultimate Bobby Carrol team in 2008 Vs the ultimate Strait Herron team in 2017.
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Re: 2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

Postby WRHIRadio » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:19 am

[quote=“5thqtr”][quote=“WRHIRadio”][quote=“Mania”]Don’t forget Hollimon. I mention him because Greg Taylor had an offensive package for him at qb that the Stallions never had to use the whole season. 2008 had a better kickoff/punt return game as well. Hollimon had 5 kick/punt return td’s and Burris had 4 that year. 2008 had a heck of an offensive line too. Darby was not at SP in 08. Ratliff was the back up tailback. Defense definitely goes to 08 as does special teams with the better return game and Ard was right there with Potter. Holmes was the best receiver from the two years, but Kendrick had more to throw to and better passing skills. 08 had more of a Bobby Carrol power run game and never let teams get closer than 21 points. At that time that was the best in state history and still probably is. This year’s team had less power running and more quick striking offense. They blew through the playoffs dominating everyone in 4a. 08 they were in a slightly higher division in comparison to this year. Head-to-Head I think 08 wins. That defense was nasty and they beat a Worley, Neely, and Patterson NW twice by 21. It would be a great game and Kendrick is a step quicker than Gilmore and spread the ball around better.[/quote]

You make some very good points. A couple of observations. I think, without a doubt, the 2017 team played a tougher schedule than the 2008 team, so we have to take that into consideration. In regards to Northwestern, while Worley, Neely, and Patterson were great that year, I think most people will agree the 2010 Northwestern team was much better than the 2008 version. Northwestern was South Pointe’s toughest competition in 2008 and I believe at least 2 if not 3 teams on South Pointe’s schedule this year would have beaten that 2008 NW squad.
When you mention Special Teams, I do not believe Ard and Potter are equals. Even during Ard’s senior year, he never was at the level that Potter was. Secondly, the 2008 campaign, Ard was a sophomore, so that gives Potter an even bigger advantage. Comparing the two main punt returners: Holloman averaged 16.5 yards per return, while Gilmore averaged 12.1, so Holloman did have a slight advantage there. In terms of punting, Ard averaged 31 yards per punt, Potter averaged 37, advantage Potter. In kickoffs, Potter hit 117 of 126 possible kickoffs for touchbacks (5 of the ones he didn’t hit as TB were because of 15 yard penalties, he was kicking from the 25). Ard meanwhile, only had touchbacks on roughly half his kicks.
Overall Slight edge to 2017 on Special Teams.

On Offense, the 2008 had Gilmore leading the way rushing with 1262 yds and 23 tds. Wherry was 2nd with just over 785 and 13Tds, while Darby was 3rd with 643 and 11 scores. Receiving: Holmes had 47 for 890 and 6 TDs, Jackson was 2nd with 28 for 318 and 2 TDs. Passing: Gilmore threw for 1,771 yds, 14 TDs and 5 Ints
2017: Rushing: Irvin 1275 yds, 16 TDS, Kendrick 1194, 20 tds, Whitlock 777 11 tds. Receiving: Robinson 53-909-8tds, Ross 39-379-3tds, Gilmore 37-685, 11tds, Good 30-519, 10tds. Passing: Kendrick 2,683 yds, 30 tds, 6 int
Overall: Big edge for 2017 team on offense

Defensively: 2008 gave up only 98 points, while the 2017 squad gave up 161. While many of these points, in both cases, came against back-ups, it is still clear that the 2008 team had a better defense.

Overall: 2008 scored 672 and gave up 98. 2017 scored 713 and gave up 161. Nearly identical margins. The 2008 had 3 games in which teams were within 21 (Northwestern twice and Rock Hill). In 2017, there was two games, 33-27 @ Buford and 41-27 vs. York.

So all in all, its easy to make a case for both teams. Having seen both play, up close and personal and going POSITION by POSITION, my belief is the 2017 team has a slight edge over that 2008 team.

QB: 2017
RB: 2017
WR: 2017
OL: 2017
DL: 2008
LB: 2008
DB: 2008
Kicking: 2017
Returns: 2008
Coaching: 2017

Again, this is my opinion.[/quote]

I agree 100%, now that you broke it down position by position. If I could do over I would choose 2017. I disagree about NW however, I don’t think anybody on this years schedule could have dealt with that NW team! They were still playing old school NW defense and Richardson had just got on a roll as a play caller!
Outside of that! I agree 100%.[/quote]

The only teams on SP's schedule this year that would have beaten 2008 NW would be Buford and Shelby. Both team's speed on defense would have negated the big plays out of the "screen game" that made that NW team so successful. Nearly 70% of Worley's throws that season were within 8 yards of the line of scrimmage. Almost all of the damage was done by Neely, Adams, and Patterson taking short throws the distance. They just were faster. That was the issue against SP, the Stallions were the only team that had that speed to totally negate it. Worley had yet to develop the vertical passing game. I think the 2010 NW and 2008 SP teams would have put on a GREAT game. Once Worley had a total grasp of the offense, it was a joy to watch.
With that said, Buford and Shelby would have done similar things to the 2008 NW team that the 2008 SP team did. I do not believe NW in 2008 could have beaten Shelby or Buford's 2017 squads.
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Re: 2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

Postby Mania » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:29 pm

Both Clover and Rock Hill were pretty good that year too. Rock Hill had Stewart, Tyler and Asa Watson. Stewart was once the number 3 juco recruit in the country and Tyler once started at tailback ahead of Tyreek Hill. Jamal Tyler got hurt in that 2008 game Vs SP and Rock Hill only makes it too the semis in 4a div 1 as a result. Clover still had Elliott who became all-world at Newberry and Douglas and was beaten in the playoffs after moving up to div 1 and faced Byrnes. Those were the years SP should have been 3a playing in 4a. Carrol wanted to stay in 4a.
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Re: 2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

Postby Mania » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:25 pm

Also, NW 2008 would have beaten Shelby and Buford. Shelby ended up losing to South Point NC and Hibritin as well by 3 and 2 tds respectively. Buford just lost to Rome 45-7 only getting 5 first downs the whole game and giving up 404 rushing yards. One thing to remember is 5thqtr alluded to is that NW still had Miller and Green at linebacker. I was once told by a former Clover running back that those two were the hardest hitters and toughest defense he faced.
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Re: 2008 Stallions VS. 2017 Stallions**^POLL

Postby Mania » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:56 pm

2008 Northwestern sent rb Neely and lb Green to the Shrine Bowl. They sent lb Jerrel Miller and lb Hakeem Adams to the North South game. All three senior linebackers for NW sent to all star games is as vintage NW defense as it gets. I can’t remember another time any other team has sent 3 linebackers to all star games in this state ever. Maybe NW also did it in 1999, but that would be the only time that I would think of it possibly happening any other time with any school. Junior Keon Stowers played on the defensive line and Dixon Jr as a sophomore. I am not completely sure if Byers was starting as a sophomore then.
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