Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

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Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

Postby oli3 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:50 am

OK, Region 3 peeps... there are only two more games left in Region 3:

Boiling Springs is 3-1, has finished region play and assured themselves at least a tie for first.
Byrnes at Dorman
Spartanburg at Gaffney


that leaves only 4 possible game results:

Byrnes beats Dorman, Spartanburg beats Gaffney
Byrnes beats Dorman, Gaffney beats Spartanburg
Dorman beats Byrnes, Spartanburg beats Gaffney
Dorman beats Byrnes, Gaffney beats Spartanburg

With the long drive back from Fort Mill last night, we were able to game these out in various ways, some of them rather ludicrous:

Boiling Springs can finish anywhere from first seed to third seed
Dorman can finish anywhere from first seed to fourth seed
Spartanburg can finish first seed, second seed, or fourth seed
Gaffney can finish anywhere from second seed to fourth seed

Someone work out the scenarios for me and tell me I am crazy! I'll work on them too and see if we have it figured out correctly.
Last edited by oli3 on Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

Postby oli3 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:13 pm

Byrnes beats Dorman, Spartanburg beats Gaffney
All are 2-way ties determined head to head. Seeds in order:
Boiling Springs 3-1
Spartanburg 3-1
Dorman 2-2
Gaffney 1-3
Byrnes 1-3

Byrnes beats Dorman, Gaffney beats Spartanburg
3-way tie procedures in effect. Seeds by points to be determined:
Boiling Springs 3-1
Spartanburg 2-2 (+13+? = ?)
Gaffney 2-2 (+10+? = ?)
Dorman 2-2 (-10-13 = -23)
Byrnes 1-3

Dorman beats Byrnes, Spartanburg beats Gaffney
3-way tie procedures in effect. Seeds in what order? guesses below:
Spartanburg 3-1 (+13+0 = 13)
Dorman 3-1 (-13+7 = -6)
Boiling Springs 3-1 (-7+0 = -7)
Gaffney 1-3
Byrnes 0-4

Dorman beats Byrnes, Gaffney beats Spartanburg
All are 2-way ties determined head to head. Seeds in order:
Dorman 3-1
Boiling Springs 3-1
Gaffney 2-2
Spartanburg 2-2
Byrnes 0-4


Okay, help me out here. As I understand it, the 3-way tiebreaker is point differential in the three games between the tied teams at the conclusion of three quarters of play. That is what I tried to do in the third group above.

Are we on the right track?
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Re: Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

Postby tomahawk97 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:54 am

We need to go back to the old point system. This seems to be more confusing. With this new playoff system u can get some weak teams that play a soft non-region schedule getting wins over 2a,3a teams getting in over a good team that played a tough schedule and plays in a tough region. I think Byrnes would be at least the 2nd best team in any other region in the upstate this year. There other regions that is going to have tie breaker issues as well. We need to get the best teams in the playoffs period regardless of what region they play in. I would like to see a 2-8 team get in over a 6-4 team this would make this whole new playoff system look like its working.
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Re: Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

Postby DHSCavsFan » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:22 am

I think for he most part this is correct, see my comments below

oli3 wrote:Byrnes beats Dorman, Spartanburg beats Gaffney
All are 2-way ties determined head to head. Seeds in order:
Boiling Springs 3-1
Spartanburg 3-1
Dorman 2-2
Gaffney 1-3
Byrnes 1-3

This is pretty much straight forward

Byrnes beats Dorman, Gaffney beats Spartanburg
3-way tie procedures in effect. Seeds by points to be determined:
Boiling Springs 3-1
Spartanburg 2-2 (+13+? = ?)
Gaffney 2-2 (+10+? = ?)
Dorman 2-2 (-10-13 = -23)
Byrnes 1-3

Of course we do not know the Gaffney/Spartanburg score yet, but if Gaffney leads Spartanburg by 2 after the 3rd, it will be the following:

Boiling Springs
Gaffney
Spartanburg
Dorman

If Gaffney's lead is 1 or less after 3, I think the following would happen:

Boiling Springs
Spartanburg
Dorman
Gaffney

I think after the 3 way tie is broken, it goes back to head to head with the last 2.

Dorman beats Byrnes, Spartanburg beats Gaffney
3-way tie procedures in effect. Seeds in what order? guesses below:
Spartanburg 3-1 (+13+0 = 13)
Dorman 3-1 (-13+7 = -6)
Boiling Springs 3-1 (-7+0 = -7)
Gaffney 1-3
Byrnes 0-4

This is correct, only because Dorman beat Boiling Springs.

Dorman beats Byrnes, Gaffney beats Spartanburg
All are 2-way ties determined head to head. Seeds in order:
Dorman 3-1
Boiling Springs 3-1
Gaffney 2-2
Spartanburg 2-2
Byrnes 0-4


Okay, help me out here. As I understand it, the 3-way tiebreaker is point differential in the three games between the tied teams at the conclusion of three quarters of play. That is what I tried to do in the third group above.

Are we on the right track?
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Re: Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

Postby Victory6 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:03 am

Dorman will beat byrnes.....and Spartanburg will beat Gaffney!! The 3 way tie breaker will give the Vikings the Region!! ;)

#1 Spartanburg 3-1 (+13+0 = 13)
#2 Dorman 3-1 (-13+7 = -6)
#3 Boiling Springs 3-1 (-7+0 = -7)
#4 Gaffney 1-3

End of discussion!! ;) ......Let the playoffs begin!!
**ONCE A VIKING, ALWAYS A VIKING**
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Re: Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

Postby trojangrad78 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:36 am

I don't know of anyone that knows what the FINAL OFFICIAL tie-breaking rules will be. Everyone agrees that the first tie-breaker is head-to-head, but after that....??

Pertaining to tie-breaking [everything in bold was added by me for emphasis]:

This is copied directly from page 2 of the SCHSL rules handbook.

GENERAL RULES
3. Before September 15th of each year, each region coordinator will call a meeting of all high schools in the region for the purpose of:
a. Checking football, volleyball, girls’ golf, girls’ tennis, swimming, competitive cheer and cross country schedules and the method of determining region champions.

This is copied directly from page 159 of the SCHSL rules handbook.

NOTE THE WORD "PROPOSED"

PROPOSED TIE-BREAKING SYSTEM
The following procedure may be used in breaking ties within the region for seeding purposes. Seeds will be filled one at a time.
1. Two Teams
a. Single-game Region Schedule: If two teams with identical region records tie, the team that defeats the other shall be declared the higher seed.
b. Two-game Region Schedule: If two teams split their contest, then they would proceed to Tie-Breaking Steps until the tie is broken.
2. Three or More Teams
a. Single-game Region Schedule: If three or more teams with identical region records tie, and one of the teams has defeated the others, that team will be seeded higher. If this does not resolve tie(s), proceed to Tie-Breaking Steps until the tie(s) are broken.
b. Two-game Region Schedule: If three or more teams with identical region records tie, the team that has the most wins between the tied teams against each other will be seeded highest. The team with the next-highest wins will be seeded second and soon. If this does not resolve tie(s), proceed to Tie-Breaking Steps until the tie(s) are broken.
TIE-BREAKING STEPS
Step 1. Region Point System
If three or more teams with identical region records tie, and no team has more victories than the others in games involving the tied teams, a point system based on region record only will determine the seed.
The following point value will be used in assigning points for a win within the region:
6 TEAM REGION 7 TEAM REGION
1st Place ...6 points 1st Place....7 points
2nd Place...5 points 2nd Place...6 points
3rd Place ...4 points 3rd Place ...5 points
4th Place ...3 points 4th Place ...4 points
5th Place ...2 points 5th Place ...3 points
6th Place ...1 point 6th Place ...2 points
7th Place....1 point
NOTE: If two or more teams are tied for a region position, each team will be acknowledged as that particular seed when the point system is in use. (Example - if 2 teams are tied for 3rd place, any win against either team would be assigned 3rd place points.) As a position is decided, the following seeds would use the latest assigned points.
Step 2.Points Allowed System
2.1 The team that gives up fewest points in games involving the tied teams shall be seeded higher.
2.2 If still tied from above, the team that gives up fewest points in all region games shall be seeded higher.
NOTE: In games that are decided by "over-time procedure," the team that loses will only add 1 point to regulation final score for purposes of figuring points allowed, and not final score of over-time procedure.
Step 3. Final Resolution System
3.1 The higher seed will be the team whose opponents have the highest winning percentage.
3.2 The higher seed will be the team whose opponents have won the most games.
3.3 The higher seed will be the team whose opponents have scored the fewest points
3.4 The higher seed will be determined by a coin toss supervised by the Region Coordinator.
NOTE: This procedure shall refer to all regularly scheduled region and non-region games, excluding tournament games
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Re: Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

Postby DHSCavsFan » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:38 am

This is what I learned yesterday with the below. Since the 3 schools are vying for second place, Boiling Springs is included in the mix, and it goes overall record among the 4 schools.

So Dorman would finish 2-1, and was the only school to beat Boiling Springs, they finish 2nd. Since Gaffney beat Spartanburg, they finish 3rd and Spartanburg finish 4th.

Of the 4 out comes that can happen:

Boiling Springs can finish #1 on 2 of 4, #2 on 1 of 4, #3 on 1 of 4.
Dorman can finish # 1 on 1 of 4, #2 on 2 of 4, #3 on 1 of 4
Spartanburg can finish #1 on 1 of 4, #2 on 1 of 4, and #4 on 2 of 4 (so if Spartanburg loses to Gaffney, they will finish 4th)
Gaffney can finish #3 on 2 of 4, or #4 on 2 of 4.

Dorman and Spartanburg both will be favor to win their last game, which will make Boiling Springs #3 seed at 9-1 going on the road in the first weekend of the playoffs.


oli3 wrote:Byrnes beats Dorman, Gaffney beats Spartanburg
3-way tie procedures in effect. Seeds by points to be determined:
Boiling Springs 3-1
Spartanburg 2-2 (+13+? = ?)
Gaffney 2-2 (+10+? = ?)
Dorman 2-2 (-10-13 = -23)
Byrnes 1-3


Okay, help me out here. As I understand it, the 3-way tiebreaker is point differential in the three games between the tied teams at the conclusion of three quarters of play. That is what I tried to do in the third group above.

Are we on the right track?
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Re: Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

Postby oli3 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:01 am

DHSCavsFan wrote:This is what I learned yesterday with the below. Since the 3 schools are vying for second place, Boiling Springs is included in the mix, and it goes overall record among the 4 schools.



If Boiling Springs is 3-1, and the others are 2-2, WHY is Boiling Springs included in the mix? They are not tied with the other three.
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Re: Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

Postby DHSCavsFan » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:18 am

oli3 wrote:
DHSCavsFan wrote:This is what I learned yesterday with the below. Since the 3 schools are vying for second place, Boiling Springs is included in the mix, and it goes overall record among the 4 schools.



If Boiling Springs is 3-1, and the others are 2-2, WHY is Boiling Springs included in the mix? They are not tied with the other three.


Just one of those quirky rules. If a 3 way tie happens on a #2 seed or below, you include records against higher seeds to see if that breaks the tie. The last resort to a 3 way tie is the difference in points after the 3rd Q, which I think it is quirky too.
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Re: Class 5A - Region 3 scenarios

Postby oli3 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:23 pm

Just one of those quirky rules. If a 3 way tie happens on a #2 seed or below, you include records against higher seeds to see if that breaks the tie. The last resort to a 3 way tie is the difference in points after the 3rd Q, which I think it is quirky too.


Hmmm.... yeah, VERY quirky if that's the rule. Let's try it:

Dorman, Spartanburg and Gaffney are tied for second, each would be 1-1 against each other without including Boiling Springs. If you add in each team's result against Boiling Springs, Dorman would be 2-1, and both Spartanburg and Gaffney would be 1-2. Would that mean that Dorman would get the second seed?

Or do you add Boiling Springs in only at the points stage? ?? I dunno.

Okay, REALLY quirky, then. :lol:
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