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Palmetto Football Talk | View topic - 2A Football

2A Football

This forum is for the South Carolina Independent High School Association League. Discuss the top players, teams and games from around the state for the top private schools.

Re: 2A Football

Postby shakenbake » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:50 pm

So what's going to happen?

Will THA win?..................THA 2nd seed PCA 4th seed
Will PCA win by 8 or more? PCA 3rd seed and THA 4th seed
Will PCA win by 7 or less? THA 3rd seed and PCA 4th seed

If PCA wins by 8 and they are tied on points with THA ... PCA will be 3rd seed by virtue of winning their head to head match.

Doodles says THA by 8. What do you say?
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Re: 2A Football

Postby PurePanther » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:00 pm

Shakenbake, I don't have any credible guess as to how those games will end up.

What I will say is....THANK YOU....for breaking it all down for us like you did. I never thought SCISA football playoff determinations could be so complicated.

Thanks for your work in doing this...as well as all of your other contributions throughout the year.
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Re: 2A Football

Postby Young guns » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:45 pm

Thanks for all the analysis! I feel like I'm listening to ESPN. There will be some big games tomorrow night! :D
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Re: 2A Football

Postby docgibbons » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:34 pm

my head hurts now...
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Re: 2A Football

Postby shakenbake » Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:34 pm

So it was Possibility 3 - PCA beat THA by 9 or more and TSA beat REL
Here's how 2A shapes up for the play-offs....

North 1 FCS .at home vs .South 4 THA
North 2 CA ...at home vs .South 3 PCA
South 1 HHC at home vs .North 4 TSA
South 2 NA ..at home vs .North 3 SCA

I think these are great matches.

While there has been talk about who deserves to go to the play-offs and who got left out. I think the North and South are each sending their best four.

The time to complain about how the play-off teams are determined is before the season begins, not after it is over. Next year may be different, but this year everyone knew going in what they had to do. Congratulations to the final 8 for doing what they had to get here.
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Re: 2A Football

Postby shakenbake » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:00 pm

2 Questions ...

1.What are your thoughts on home field as an advantage? Do you think it makes a difference?

2. Is there a strategy(ies) the underdogs can employ to win?

Using doodles TSA is (-36), SCA (-20), THA (-14), CA (-13)

I've seen most of these teams play ... I think this is the first time CA and PCA have ever faced each other. It would seem trying to outscore them doesn't work so well...so a few defensive stops are a must. ... Any thoughts?

If you were coaching TSA, SCA, THA, CA - what would you do to win. What could you have done differently during the year and try now unique to your team or in response to your opponent?
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Re: 2A Football

Postby Young guns » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:05 pm

Young guns
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Re: 2A Football

Postby shakenbake » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:59 pm

Thanks for your thoughts young guns. I hope what you said about home field is true because our game is at home. Now consider this your Generals won two games and BOTH of them were on the ROAD. Just sayin' Perhaps it is best that you are taking a trip tomorrow (SMILE)

Having watched TSA and knowing something of HHCA ... you guys have a tough row to hoe but I agree with you especailly about the turnovers ...

TSA beat themselves as much as any team I saw this year. If you are going to have any chance ... you must not beat yourselves. In the first half of the CA game I think four of TSA's first five drives ended in fumbles... and the other was a snap over the punters head that he intentionally kicked through the end zone for a safety. Not to mention TSA's self inflicted penalty wounds. Do not help HHCA out or they will make you pay. If they beat you make them earn it.

I'm not rubbing it in ... CA does the same kind of stuff...you fumbled to us and we fumbled back to you ... Fumbles, penalties, and interceptions. But in the end we finally settled down. One thing I've noticed over the years is that between the 2A north and south teams ... the south teams tend to win the turnover battles and the penalty battles consistently. When people wonder why the south tends to beat the north ... certainly things like larger population centers to draw from etc comes up ... but I'd add this ...the southern teams don't tend to beat themselves. In our game with HHCA last year we fumbled on the first play of the game ... HHCA was already a good team and on their way to being state champs ... and of course fumbles are a credit to a defense, but having said that ... you can't help a good team out and they won't help you out. When THA and HHCA, and PCA, and NA play ... they limit their mistakes. Maybe it's because they are better teams, but the fact remains they limit their mistakes.

In the North even FCS is suspect in this regard ... they beat us this year, but they fumbled and penaltied and so did we for the first quarter of the game ... it seems to be a northern team thing. The game really didn't get going until the second quarter. Maybe I'm overstating this ... but here's my thought to all the underdogs ... North or South ... and in general the entire North is an underdog including FCS just because they are in the north .... don't beat yourself ... don't help your opponent out. I often think the Cavaliers can't help it ... because we try to live up to our mascot - a cavalier is a gentleman knight..."oh you turned over the ball to us ... so here let us give it back to you...that is the gentlemanly thing to do." The entire northern conference needs to take this to heart and win the takeaway battle.

The average high school offensive football drive for score lasts 10 plays or less. Before or by the 10th play the drive usually breaks down because of an offensive mistake. Push’em back, bend if you must, and get this - you can even break, but not until you've made them run at least ten plays ... 10 plays … defensively hang on for ten plays and opposing offense will probably mess up. It’s not that one team wins … so much as the other team loses because of it’s own mistakes. Teams that score quickly on big plays avoid this statistical reality.

Maybe the big play is why the south often wins the turnover and penalty battles and ultimately the game ... because they have been better at the big play ... for example CA drives it down the field 12 plays in a row 3 first downs and then makes a mistake statistically it happens, but then our Southern opponent gets the ball and scores in two plays. We aren't able to take advantage of the statistical reality that every high school team shoots itself in the foot if given time, because our opponent scores before that happens.

That's what's great about the big play ... it radically lowers the statisitical chance of an offensive turnover or any other mistake.

TSA has the toughest match tomorrow, above all else hang on to the ball and win the penalty battle or it will be a loooong night. I believe this has been a sore spot for TSA all year ... it is a correctable matter. I'm sure your coaches have prepped your boys up to protect the ball all season ... now it's time to put it to the ultimate test. I made this out to be a north south thing .... the truth is winning teams everywhere and at every level rarely lose the turnover battle.

I believe TSA's best chance for an upset is winning the turnover battle. This is true for all of the teams, but whereas FCS, CA, and SCA may have a little margin for error in slightly more favorable match ups ... maybe they can survive a turnover ... maybe ... but TSA can't. The only way you can get away with a turnover is If HHCA fumbles and throws interceptions, but they won't ... so you can't.

I'm pulling for the underdogs tomorrow ... and naturally I'm pulling for the Northern Conference. I hope you guys find a way.

PS You mentioned the need to "slow Doe down".

The key to that is Gang tackling … Hopefully your coaches have emphasized this and your players have taken it to heart ... Hit the runner hard and wrap him up and if he doesn’t go down … hang on! HELP is on the way. Kids have gotten in the habit of making these shoulder shot tackles ... and the good backs just bounce off ... wrap up and hang on. Every team has a great player … but he can’t beat a great team - 11 players working together. Find the ball … pursue and attack the ball. Running backs can fake you out. It’s the ball that matters most. If 11 boys pursue the ball your defense will be tough. Pursuit is the surest sign of hustle and that a boy wants to play. A player who is not PURSUING the ball might as well be SHOUTING COACH TAKE ME OUT … put somebody else in my position … I want to stand on the sideline and watch this game. If your team goes after Doe you will slow him down.

I'd still like to know more about PCA ... anybody? Is there a way to beat them. How did they score so many on THA? Was it really just a case of one guy going off? Is it a matter of the weather ... does PCA like rain ... should I hope for dry weather?

Are you ready for some football?
Last edited by shakenbake on Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2A Football

Postby Young guns » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:36 pm

Agree to all. It will be interesting to see if this a repeat of the 1st game or something different. Last week, it was raining cats and dogs at REL. I was sure we were going to fumble the ball away, and it was going to be real ugly. Boy was I wrong...I don't remember a single turnover (although it is possible I missed one). Point is that we didn't beat ourselves. This is what I want to see against HHCA...a (under) dog's chance to win the game. :D

Wish I could comment on PCA, but I haven't seen them play. But I think a similar formula will work for any underdog. Stop the opponents big playmaker and don't beat yourself with turnovers and penalties. A little luck never hurts either.
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Re: 2A Football

Postby PurePanther » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:06 am

Shakenbake and Young Guns, I agree with all the above as far as things to try to hang your hat on for the North teams to pull off some upsets.

First, living amongst the North-based schools, but without having a dog in the fight (no children that are players/cheerleaders and not being raised in private schools), my outsider's opinion is that I do think that 2 of the 4 North teams will be substantial underdogs (TSA, SC), one team a little less of an underdog (CA) and one team a favorite - I guess in other words I believe the Doodle's picks are about right based on his/her calculations.

However, the thing the North can have hope on - in addition to those y'all have listed - is the fact that the South teams give up a TON OF POINTS. That could be because they play against the other South squads that usually ding up the scoreboard offensively, but it seems like the South scores I've seen all year long have been 50-something to 30-something, 40-something to 30-something.

Here's what I'm talking about...

HHC - 348 points scored, 275 points given up
Northwood - 307 points scored, 257 points given up
Palmetto Christian - 450 points scored (wow), BUT 339 points given up
THA - 402 points scored, BUT 409 points given up

In contrast, the North teams aren't scoring as much, but 3 of the top 4 teams have some decent defensive stats:

FCS - 379 points scored, 169 points given up
Calhoun - 255 points scored, 234 points given up
Spartanburg Christian - 222 points scored, 274 points given up
TSA - 153 points scored, 350 points given up

The North seems to struggle a little bit more to score points like the South teams - possibly because of the reasons Shakenbake lists. Tonight, it will be crucial that Calhoun and SC both score a good bit more than their current average-per-game to have a chance.

I think FCS is in decent shape tonight, CA and SC could surprise with wins, but you're going to have to score with them, hold on to the ball, and make a few breaks for your teams - steal some points (Kickoff return, fumble return, interception, punt return for a TD - something like that).

And if you get your breaks, take advantage of them.

Good luck - it can be done.
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